Earth: 2025

Earth: 2025 / Alliance Talk / The Great HAN War

Beltshumeltz
User ID: 0610144 Dec 30th 7:14 PM
I've heard about this one a couple of times, but never really figured what really happened...

Could someone give me a buit of history? How big was HAN? Who fought them? etc...

Mike1
User ID: 0331974 Dec 30th 7:17 PM
Don't remember the exact size of Han but it was UCN and its div's that was fighting Han at the time. If you have Fin's contact, he would be a good person to ask about the war.

ZeroG
User ID: 1209744 Dec 30th 9:05 PM
My memories of that war are fading, but I could
add a few things:

1. Alliance size was hard to measure at the time
because there were no clan tags, though some
people put their alliance name in their
country name.

I do recall that Han wasn't really that huge,
maybe 120-130 countries on their side at the
start, if that.

2. Han fought not only UCN (which at the time
included SoL, some of the present day Avengers,
ICN, the old DaMob, and probably some others),
but TGA/SoC/KoH as well, which at the time
were independent, though very close. Han was led by nicety, TGA by Karl, and UCN by Klingon.
Once the war got going, a bunch of other
alliances joined against Han.

3. The war started over what were deemed
excessive land grabs by Han. Han was part of
The Joint Alliance, which included LaF,
the old EoS, as well as several other smaller
alliances (ELoN and I think it was UWS). My
understanding is that when the other TJA
alliances checked the news, they agreed that
Han had been excessive and chose not to
join the war on Han's side. [Someone could
correct me on this, but I think that this
was the reason for Han attacking (and
absolutely crushing) EoS and then LaF
in the next reset -- in my mind, Han's best
reset and meriting consideration for all-time
best reset for wartime performance.]

4. Communication was weak -- I believe only
Rock (which became Legion and then a part of
FoG) had a site that was really worth anything.
War status briefings on the TGA/UCN side
were sent by email.

5. You basically couldn't kill a country by
guerilla strikes/bombing runs at the time --
it might've been possible, but it was certainly
impractical. It was also one of the first resets where you could hit a country an unlimited number of times. Consequently, you had to use nukes,
chems, and SS's (no PS's at the time) to kill
someone. GDI was unbreakable, but there were no
restrictions on hitting countries without GDI.

6. Han was outnumbered by more than 2:1, in theory, but had a lot more net worth. Unbreakable
GDI meant a lot of them were hard to hit.

7. TGA/UCN got the first strike, but Han held
on quite well for the first week or two. TGA
had fought Han the previous reset, but UCN
was not battle-tested. Lack of participation
hurt both TGA and UCN (I was the clerk in
charge of counting attacks against/by the
various Han countries, and the "against"
numbers were much lower than would be
expected).

8. In the end, numbers and improved organization
overcame the initial stumbles. Attacks were no
longer spread out, but focused on a few countries
until they were killed. Mike1 -- who was leader
or coleader of SoL-- and/or Norcal got the
SoL countries really organized, in particular,
I believe. Karl decided to go with all-missiles
attacks to bring down the top-ranked Han countries
without GDI, and then he got a few relatively
high-ranking TGA tyrannies
(which had that nice 35% weapons bonus at the
time) to just try hitting the top 10 Han countries
who had GDI. Surprisingly, they got through,
and in combination with more focused attacks,
that pretty much meant the war was over.

Anyone with a better memory should feel
free to correct any errors.

Hope this helps.

Don Duque
User ID: 8861793 Dec 30th 9:09 PM
Absolutely crushing EoS? Where were you at? They begged us for a damn cease fire that reset. We just barely gave it to them becuase we were winning :).

Mike1
User ID: 0331974 Dec 30th 9:23 PM
Yep, that was much more accurate than i could remember but thanks for bringing back some memories : )
Those were definately the days when communication was harder and most operated out of sites with little to no security which I think was more enjoyable.
i do remember countries on Han's side showing up out of nowhere every other day and NorCal's mass emails did most of the organizing for the war

User ID: 9732463 Dec 31st 3:47 AM
Hell he still do those mass emails, I remember getting those during the EoS war.

GREEN
User ID: 0624334 Dec 31st 6:57 AM
What I remember was Karl's (TGA) mass E-Mailing just after midnight each day, with three targets.. a high, mid, and low ranked target, for all the Allied Forces Alliance members to concentrate on. After the longtime TGA Leader, Cardonia, disappeared, Karl was named to stand in as TGA Leader. Karl was then chosen as the overall leader, of A.F. Alliance. The Allied Forces Alliance had been some two, possibly three or more games in the planning. TGA had fought HAN each game over this problem with excessive grabs, and was angry over agreements being broken time after time with HAN's claiming not to have understood the terms of that agreement. The other Alliances had been in and out of Wars with HAN, but never had they had to fight all at one time. It was agreed if HAN broke the Peace agreements the next game, Allied Forces Alliance would be born. They did the first week of the Game, and TGA went to War. No one has mentioned how very long the Games were back then. That one went on and on. I found it necessary to drop 1000+ acres a day, consistantly during that time. Many UCN players (Not the SOL or ICN Divisions) as the War wore on, caused bad feeling by grabbing AF members who were fighting and bound to not retailate on an Ally. I think some ongoing hard feelings between Alliances, date back to that time. It is true no one but RoCK had a database, and it was pretty much a secret, and very secure, for their own members use. I wonder now, if RT in his generousity, had not allowed other Alliances, UCN, SOL, TGA, Omega, etc access to that Wonder of Wonders.. what this Game might be at this point. I, myself, could not conceive the wonders of such a vast amount of information covering the entire Game's history, being at our fingertips. There was a "scores" bot for you "relative newbies" that kept the Rankings up to date with no need to upload your scores daily. In those days, you kept ongoing notes (usually in a fresh notebook) all game long on any particular country numbers which had given trouble, and who they might be involved with. HAN fought valiantly, but there was no stopping the shear numbers they faced, day in and day out. It was the first game as an Alliance for Clan of the Wolf, which starting policing the War, later joining The Allied Forces. Stand Out A.F. Alliances in my memory were TGA (KoH was a Division at that time), SoC, UCN's SOL and ICN Divisions, and The Alorn Council.

MonKeyTalk Dec 31st 10:19 PM
great

Beltshumeltz
User ID: 8492403 Dec 31st 10:37 PM
Thanks a lot guys for the info

fingolfin
User ID: 0498634 Dec 31st 10:50 PM
actually ucn didn't get rock site access at all during that war. Tie was also involved durning that war. the leaders i remember most on the non-han side were

soc: digtek, tod (alhazrad)
tga: karl, cardonia
koh: cougar, merlyn (merlyn used to keep this neat list of han dead to look at.
Ucn-central council: klingon, gorflin, quester
ucn-icn: crash, squid
ucn-sol:mike1, norcal
ucn-moon council-hemm
ucn-terran avenger: mist, zorky
tie: inferno
rock: corflu

klingon burnt out that game and basically quit with about 4 weeks left, quester bailed, and gorfin started SEA leaving ucn proper with no true leader and gave autonomy to the councils leading to the ucn breakup and founding of sol, tma, icn again as seperate alliances and getting me involved in leadership (a fact that many of course now regret LOL)

About 3 weeks into the war i remember a leaderchat that i got to sit in as i became basically the central council leader and klingon wanted to end the war and so did at least one other alliance. Won't swear to it but i think cougar was willign ot follow ucn's lead. Inferno said no way they would quit and I believe corflu didn't want to quit. I know karl was ready to end it. not sure about dig's position at the time.

Because klingon stepped away from teh game ucn's allies were pretty ticked that we didn't fight as well as we might but that was from lack of leadership not zeal. I remember the war effort being very fragmented. I talked alot woth soc, tga, and tie people but never to rock or even really sol members. It was a real FUBAR all the way around.

HAN started with about 130 members and we only knew of them because rock would copy off database sheets for us to tell us who the enemy was. Remember there were no tags back then. I swear though for every enemy we killed they grew 3 back.

In my mind that still in the most defining reset in the games history. cueball at the time was a member of the ucn and saw the need of a secure site and created e2hq which sol, ucn, and a couple others moved to the next reset. Norcal and I took over leadership of ucn (me due to klingons' stepping down and norcal because mike1 lost computer access for nearly a month. It fragmented the allaince relations after karl left the game about 3 weeks into the next reset for real life issues (i guess 20 hours a day playing the game was a bit much for him) and dig and i always butted heads so tga and ucn broke off relations with ucn and hooked up with rock, tie went neutral to everyone, norcal and i stayed realy close and for the next 3 resets had a VERY tight FDP.

Little known fact there was discussions on the table to have a three way coalition of SOL, UCN, and the revamped TGA (soc joined tga that reset) with a triumvurate leadership of karl, mike1, and myself. Tga signed on but sol scuttled the deal mainly due to some fabrications of Anthony Ciolli about me.

Once Karl left Digtek took control of all of TGA and a non landgrabbing policy went into effect that has caused an uproar ever since.

HAN remained a power ever since but hasn't had the dominance that it once had.

With the constant fighting of most major allaince a new power sprouted among the chaos. LAF, you might have heard of them :)

Well enough for tonight. Hope you enjoyed some old history from an old timer.

Cerberus
User ID: 0339064 Dec 31st 11:47 PM
That was indeed a good post Fing, I remember most of that time and that seems to be a fairly accurate recollection, although I wasn't very active in politics back then.

I remember that Terran League was hosted on tomatoweb back then, and other alliances were distributed here and yon.

HAN countries were easier to ID back then, they were the ones trying to kill you. LOL

Cerberus of The URC

GREEN
User ID: 9607473 Jan 1st 0:27 AM
Yes, that was about the way it went, fingolfin. Just for the record, however... the No Land Grab Rule was put in place by Karl, based on the rules The much smaller Alorn Council Alliance had been abiding by, for some time. He wanted to see if they would work on a larger scale. After he left, DigTek was voted in as Primary Leader, and the Rules being overwhelmingly approved by the membership, Crash's ICN Division left, because they did not feel they could play successfully, without land grabbing.
Those WERE interesting Games.

Don Giovanni
User ID: 1564944 Jan 1st 0:52 AM
actually, there were 2 great HAN wars. One of them was HAN + RED vs. Everyone, and a few resets later, it was RED vs. Everyone. They both turned out pretty much the same, after weeks of fighting, HAN caved in... as would be expected when you have every alliance in the game hitting you.

groton
User ID: 1425064 Jan 1st 4:54 AM
I remeber the last Han Vs everyon war the one that happend in FEB.or was that China.

Beltshumeltz User ID: 0610144	Dec 30th 7:14 PM I've heard about this one a couple of times, but never really figured what really happened... Could someone give me a buit of history? How big was HAN? Who fought them? etc...
Mike1 User ID: 0331974	Dec 30th 7:17 PM Don't remember the exact size of Han but it was UCN and its div's that was fighting Han at the time. If you have Fin's contact, he would be a good person to ask about the war.
ZeroG User ID: 1209744	Dec 30th 9:05 PM My memories of that war are fading, but I could add a few things: 1. Alliance size was hard to measure at the time because there were no clan tags, though some people put their alliance name in their country name. I do recall that Han wasn't really that huge, maybe 120-130 countries on their side at the start, if that. 2. Han fought not only UCN (which at the time included SoL, some of the present day Avengers, ICN, the old DaMob, and probably some others), but TGA/SoC/KoH as well, which at the time were independent, though very close. Han was led by nicety, TGA by Karl, and UCN by Klingon. Once the war got going, a bunch of other alliances joined against Han. 3. The war started over what were deemed excessive land grabs by Han. Han was part of The Joint Alliance, which included LaF, the old EoS, as well as several other smaller alliances (ELoN and I think it was UWS). My understanding is that when the other TJA alliances checked the news, they agreed that Han had been excessive and chose not to join the war on Han's side. [Someone could correct me on this, but I think that this was the reason for Han attacking (and absolutely crushing) EoS and then LaF in the next reset -- in my mind, Han's best reset and meriting consideration for all-time best reset for wartime performance.] 4. Communication was weak -- I believe only Rock (which became Legion and then a part of FoG) had a site that was really worth anything. War status briefings on the TGA/UCN side were sent by email. 5. You basically couldn't kill a country by guerilla strikes/bombing runs at the time -- it might've been possible, but it was certainly impractical. It was also one of the first resets where you could hit a country an unlimited number of times. Consequently, you had to use nukes, chems, and SS's (no PS's at the time) to kill someone. GDI was unbreakable, but there were no restrictions on hitting countries without GDI. 6. Han was outnumbered by more than 2:1, in theory, but had a lot more net worth. Unbreakable GDI meant a lot of them were hard to hit. 7. TGA/UCN got the first strike, but Han held on quite well for the first week or two. TGA had fought Han the previous reset, but UCN was not battle-tested. Lack of participation hurt both TGA and UCN (I was the clerk in charge of counting attacks against/by the various Han countries, and the "against" numbers were much lower than would be expected). 8. In the end, numbers and improved organization overcame the initial stumbles. Attacks were no longer spread out, but focused on a few countries until they were killed. Mike1 -- who was leader or coleader of SoL-- and/or Norcal got the SoL countries really organized, in particular, I believe. Karl decided to go with all-missiles attacks to bring down the top-ranked Han countries without GDI, and then he got a few relatively high-ranking TGA tyrannies (which had that nice 35% weapons bonus at the time) to just try hitting the top 10 Han countries who had GDI. Surprisingly, they got through, and in combination with more focused attacks, that pretty much meant the war was over. Anyone with a better memory should feel free to correct any errors. Hope this helps.
Don Duque User ID: 8861793	Dec 30th 9:09 PM Absolutely crushing EoS? Where were you at? They begged us for a damn cease fire that reset. We just barely gave it to them becuase we were winning :).
Mike1 User ID: 0331974	Dec 30th 9:23 PM Yep, that was much more accurate than i could remember but thanks for bringing back some memories : ) Those were definately the days when communication was harder and most operated out of sites with little to no security which I think was more enjoyable. i do remember countries on Han's side showing up out of nowhere every other day and NorCal's mass emails did most of the organizing for the war
*User ID: 9732463*	Dec 31st 3:47 AM Hell he still do those mass emails, I remember getting those during the EoS war.
GREEN User ID: 0624334	Dec 31st 6:57 AM What I remember was Karl's (TGA) mass E-Mailing just after midnight each day, with three targets.. a high, mid, and low ranked target, for all the Allied Forces Alliance members to concentrate on. After the longtime TGA Leader, Cardonia, disappeared, Karl was named to stand in as TGA Leader. Karl was then chosen as the overall leader, of A.F. Alliance. The Allied Forces Alliance had been some two, possibly three or more games in the planning. TGA had fought HAN each game over this problem with excessive grabs, and was angry over agreements being broken time after time with HAN's claiming not to have understood the terms of that agreement. The other Alliances had been in and out of Wars with HAN, but never had they had to fight all at one time. It was agreed if HAN broke the Peace agreements the next game, Allied Forces Alliance would be born. They did the first week of the Game, and TGA went to War. No one has mentioned how very long the Games were back then. That one went on and on. I found it necessary to drop 1000+ acres a day, consistantly during that time. Many UCN players (Not the SOL or ICN Divisions) as the War wore on, caused bad feeling by grabbing AF members who were fighting and bound to not retailate on an Ally. I think some ongoing hard feelings between Alliances, date back to that time. It is true no one but RoCK had a database, and it was pretty much a secret, and very secure, for their own members use. I wonder now, if RT in his generousity, had not allowed other Alliances, UCN, SOL, TGA, Omega, etc access to that Wonder of Wonders.. what this Game might be at this point. I, myself, could not conceive the wonders of such a vast amount of information covering the entire Game's history, being at our fingertips. There was a "scores" bot for you "relative newbies" that kept the Rankings up to date with no need to upload your scores daily. In those days, you kept ongoing notes (usually in a fresh notebook) all game long on any particular country numbers which had given trouble, and who they might be involved with. HAN fought valiantly, but there was no stopping the shear numbers they faced, day in and day out. It was the first game as an Alliance for Clan of the Wolf, which starting policing the War, later joining The Allied Forces. Stand Out A.F. Alliances in my memory were TGA (KoH was a Division at that time), SoC, UCN's SOL and ICN Divisions, and The Alorn Council.
MonKeyTalk	Dec 31st 10:19 PM great
Beltshumeltz User ID: 8492403	Dec 31st 10:37 PM Thanks a lot guys for the info
fingolfin User ID: 0498634	Dec 31st 10:50 PM actually ucn didn't get rock site access at all during that war. Tie was also involved durning that war. the leaders i remember most on the non-han side were soc: digtek, tod (alhazrad) tga: karl, cardonia koh: cougar, merlyn (merlyn used to keep this neat list of han dead to look at. Ucn-central council: klingon, gorflin, quester ucn-icn: crash, squid ucn-sol:mike1, norcal ucn-moon council-hemm ucn-terran avenger: mist, zorky tie: inferno rock: corflu klingon burnt out that game and basically quit with about 4 weeks left, quester bailed, and gorfin started SEA leaving ucn proper with no true leader and gave autonomy to the councils leading to the ucn breakup and founding of sol, tma, icn again as seperate alliances and getting me involved in leadership (a fact that many of course now regret LOL) About 3 weeks into the war i remember a leaderchat that i got to sit in as i became basically the central council leader and klingon wanted to end the war and so did at least one other alliance. Won't swear to it but i think cougar was willign ot follow ucn's lead. Inferno said no way they would quit and I believe corflu didn't want to quit. I know karl was ready to end it. not sure about dig's position at the time. Because klingon stepped away from teh game ucn's allies were pretty ticked that we didn't fight as well as we might but that was from lack of leadership not zeal. I remember the war effort being very fragmented. I talked alot woth soc, tga, and tie people but never to rock or even really sol members. It was a real FUBAR all the way around. HAN started with about 130 members and we only knew of them because rock would copy off database sheets for us to tell us who the enemy was. Remember there were no tags back then. I swear though for every enemy we killed they grew 3 back. In my mind that still in the most defining reset in the games history. cueball at the time was a member of the ucn and saw the need of a secure site and created e2hq which sol, ucn, and a couple others moved to the next reset. Norcal and I took over leadership of ucn (me due to klingons' stepping down and norcal because mike1 lost computer access for nearly a month. It fragmented the allaince relations after karl left the game about 3 weeks into the next reset for real life issues (i guess 20 hours a day playing the game was a bit much for him) and dig and i always butted heads so tga and ucn broke off relations with ucn and hooked up with rock, tie went neutral to everyone, norcal and i stayed realy close and for the next 3 resets had a VERY tight FDP. Little known fact there was discussions on the table to have a three way coalition of SOL, UCN, and the revamped TGA (soc joined tga that reset) with a triumvurate leadership of karl, mike1, and myself. Tga signed on but sol scuttled the deal mainly due to some fabrications of Anthony Ciolli about me. Once Karl left Digtek took control of all of TGA and a non landgrabbing policy went into effect that has caused an uproar ever since. HAN remained a power ever since but hasn't had the dominance that it once had. With the constant fighting of most major allaince a new power sprouted among the chaos. LAF, you might have heard of them :) Well enough for tonight. Hope you enjoyed some old history from an old timer.
Cerberus User ID: 0339064	Dec 31st 11:47 PM That was indeed a good post Fing, I remember most of that time and that seems to be a fairly accurate recollection, although I wasn't very active in politics back then. I remember that Terran League was hosted on tomatoweb back then, and other alliances were distributed here and yon. HAN countries were easier to ID back then, they were the ones trying to kill you. LOL Cerberus of The URC
GREEN User ID: 9607473	Jan 1st 0:27 AM Yes, that was about the way it went, fingolfin. Just for the record, however... the No Land Grab Rule was put in place by Karl, based on the rules The much smaller Alorn Council Alliance had been abiding by, for some time. He wanted to see if they would work on a larger scale. After he left, DigTek was voted in as Primary Leader, and the Rules being overwhelmingly approved by the membership, Crash's ICN Division left, because they did not feel they could play successfully, without land grabbing. Those WERE interesting Games.
Don Giovanni User ID: 1564944	Jan 1st 0:52 AM actually, there were 2 great HAN wars. One of them was HAN + RED vs. Everyone, and a few resets later, it was RED vs. Everyone. They both turned out pretty much the same, after weeks of fighting, HAN caved in... as would be expected when you have every alliance in the game hitting you.
groton User ID: 1425064	Jan 1st 4:54 AM I remeber the last Han Vs everyon war the one that happend in FEB.or was that China.